The Other McCain

"One should either write ruthlessly what one believes to be the truth, or else shut up." — Arthur Koestler

Coburn Over Gingrich, Sure, But How Do We Do Redemption?

Posted on | August 31, 2010 | 41 Comments

by Smitty (h/t The Corner)

I don’t disagree with what Senator Coburn says in Politico:

In explaining why he wouldn’t support Gingrich, Coburn specifically targeted the ex-speaker’s three marriages as proof that Gingrich “doesn’t know anything about commitment to marriage.”

“His life indicates he does not have a commitment to the character traits necessary to be a great president,” said Coburn, who also noted that Gingrich is a “super-smart man.”

Coburn’s comments follow criticism of Gingrich from his second wife, Marianne, who recently told Esquire that there is “no way” her ex-husband could become president.

Furthermore, Gingrich’s opportunism on NY-23 and the GZM seem to put him somewhere around Pat Buchanan in the realm of hit-or-miss talking heads.

Still, how do we deal with a guy who’s been married three times? That’s not immoral under Sharia law, and we shouldn’t have religious litmus tests for elected leaders, am I correct? Fred Thompson is rather high mileage, yet I voted for him in the VA primary in 2008. Am I inconsistent in apply moral tests for leadership capacity?

Let me say that (a) we all screw up, and (b) actions subsequent to the screw up, i.e. repentance, are crucial to ‘redeeming’ the figure. Or ‘restoring honor’, if you will. Sure, we blow it, but patterns of indiscretion should diminish sharply over time, or we’re not learning.

How is leadership compartmentalized? Can a man be an overgrown teenager (Bill Clinton) and still be of use in public office? Does non-command of the wedding tackle make a lousy Commander-in-Chief? What about alcoholism or other addiction? I want to say that the best leaders limit their major flaws to hubris.

Having served in the military, I recall being offended that uniformed officers are held to higher standards of conduct that elected officials. To what degree does the act of winning an election constitute a publicly issued pardon (Alcee Hastings)?

Here is something of a conclusion: let us be as forgiving as genuine repentance allows, but, more importantly, strive to diminish the importance of individuals in running the government, so that the negative impact of personal failings is reduced.  Oh, and Senator Coburn would make a far better President than His Newtness.

Category: Politics

Comments

41 Responses to “Coburn Over Gingrich, Sure, But How Do We Do Redemption?”

  1. Dave C
    August 31st, 2010 @ 5:25 pm

    After the first two marriages fail, it probably is not the other person.

    Just saying.

  2. Dave C
    August 31st, 2010 @ 1:25 pm

    After the first two marriages fail, it probably is not the other person.

    Just saying.

  3. Rob
    August 31st, 2010 @ 5:42 pm

    I use to be a fan of him when I saw him speak in Austin, TX at a “Tea Party” rally. However, he spoke for a hour and got in helicopter to go to El Paso…that says a lot…he screams political opportunism.

    Anyway, lets get Paul Ryan in as Speaker of the House. Paul Ryan has a great plan, John Boehner doesn’t…tell your Congressmen to vote Paul Ryan for Speaker.

  4. Rob
    August 31st, 2010 @ 1:42 pm

    I use to be a fan of him when I saw him speak in Austin, TX at a “Tea Party” rally. However, he spoke for a hour and got in helicopter to go to El Paso…that says a lot…he screams political opportunism.

    Anyway, lets get Paul Ryan in as Speaker of the House. Paul Ryan has a great plan, John Boehner doesn’t…tell your Congressmen to vote Paul Ryan for Speaker.

  5. SDN
    August 31st, 2010 @ 5:52 pm

    smitty, Fred Thompson at least had the class to divorce his wife and then start dating. One of the funnier incidents in 2008 was when the various oppo research weasels started interviewing his ex wife and former girlfriends looking for good dirt…. and couldn’t find one of them who had anything bad to say about him.

  6. SDN
    August 31st, 2010 @ 1:52 pm

    smitty, Fred Thompson at least had the class to divorce his wife and then start dating. One of the funnier incidents in 2008 was when the various oppo research weasels started interviewing his ex wife and former girlfriends looking for good dirt…. and couldn’t find one of them who had anything bad to say about him.

  7. Charles Johnson
    August 31st, 2010 @ 6:02 pm

    Fuck Bill Clinton. He is going to hell in my book. No redemption for him.

    He is a fucking lying, cheating, scumbug who had the opportunity to free Leonard Peltier before he left office as President.

    No respect for the Clintons in my book.

  8. Charles Johnson
    August 31st, 2010 @ 2:02 pm

    Fuck Bill Clinton. He is going to hell in my book. No redemption for him.

    He is a fucking lying, cheating, scumbug who had the opportunity to free Leonard Peltier before he left office as President.

    No respect for the Clintons in my book.

  9. J David
    August 31st, 2010 @ 6:09 pm

    Let’s forget for a moment the content of the marriage caveat for a moment, and notice that it was a spur-of-the-moment question that sparked that spur-of-the-moment answer. I doubt very much, considering the company that Coburn has to keep daily, that he is going around fuming about how many times Newt, or anyone else is married.

    But Newt’s personal ethics ARE, now, ALWAYS going to be an issue. That is then easily tied to things like his position on “Cap-and-tax” from his flirtations with liberals on the global warming hoax(and one must strongly suspect that he has known right along that it was a hoax), and other such PC issues. Newt’s a liar, he just a VERY SMART liar. Ask his former wives…

  10. J David
    August 31st, 2010 @ 2:09 pm

    Let’s forget for a moment the content of the marriage caveat for a moment, and notice that it was a spur-of-the-moment question that sparked that spur-of-the-moment answer. I doubt very much, considering the company that Coburn has to keep daily, that he is going around fuming about how many times Newt, or anyone else is married.

    But Newt’s personal ethics ARE, now, ALWAYS going to be an issue. That is then easily tied to things like his position on “Cap-and-tax” from his flirtations with liberals on the global warming hoax(and one must strongly suspect that he has known right along that it was a hoax), and other such PC issues. Newt’s a liar, he just a VERY SMART liar. Ask his former wives…

  11. Charles Johnson
    August 31st, 2010 @ 6:14 pm

    I learned about Leonard years ago at the performance that John Trudell gave there in Chicago. It was a benefit concert for Leonard.

    There is so much injustice in this world and this is one of them. Leonard is truly a modern day Martyr.

    I tried years ago to write letters to the politicians to free him, but gave up in disgust. I totally gave up when Bill Clinton was leaving office and had the chance to free Leonard, pardon him. But instead, he left him in Leavenworth to rot and die there.

    Instead, Clinton pardoned some known white collar criminal who definitely still belongs in prison. It so saddened me and broke my heart.

    I lost all respect for Clinton on that day.

    Please at least be informed of what is going on and this great injustice. Leonard has the support of millions, and yet he is still in jail. He has the support of Robert Redford, Dalai Lama, Nelson Mandela, Desmond Tutu, Ramsey Clark, Amnesty International, etc.

    My heart just breaks knowing that an injustice is not made right. When will justice be done down here. I hope soon, I pray soon. God bless Leonard and his family and may he see freedom before he dies.

  12. Charles Johnson
    August 31st, 2010 @ 2:14 pm

    I learned about Leonard years ago at the performance that John Trudell gave there in Chicago. It was a benefit concert for Leonard.

    There is so much injustice in this world and this is one of them. Leonard is truly a modern day Martyr.

    I tried years ago to write letters to the politicians to free him, but gave up in disgust. I totally gave up when Bill Clinton was leaving office and had the chance to free Leonard, pardon him. But instead, he left him in Leavenworth to rot and die there.

    Instead, Clinton pardoned some known white collar criminal who definitely still belongs in prison. It so saddened me and broke my heart.

    I lost all respect for Clinton on that day.

    Please at least be informed of what is going on and this great injustice. Leonard has the support of millions, and yet he is still in jail. He has the support of Robert Redford, Dalai Lama, Nelson Mandela, Desmond Tutu, Ramsey Clark, Amnesty International, etc.

    My heart just breaks knowing that an injustice is not made right. When will justice be done down here. I hope soon, I pray soon. God bless Leonard and his family and may he see freedom before he dies.

  13. Blake
    August 31st, 2010 @ 6:24 pm

    I could care less how many times Gingrich has been married.

    Anyone who shoots a “green” commercial with Speaker Pelosi has other issues with me.

    By the way, Senator Coburn is being gentle with Gingrich in this interview.

    Sen. Coburn was less than complimentary toward Gingrich in his book “Breach of Trust.”

  14. Blake
    August 31st, 2010 @ 2:24 pm

    I could care less how many times Gingrich has been married.

    Anyone who shoots a “green” commercial with Speaker Pelosi has other issues with me.

    By the way, Senator Coburn is being gentle with Gingrich in this interview.

    Sen. Coburn was less than complimentary toward Gingrich in his book “Breach of Trust.”

  15. Rob
    August 31st, 2010 @ 6:27 pm

    On Leonard, wikipage it said he shot two FBI agents. What’s the whole story?

    The Lockerbie Bomber story is very mysterious…you look at the case and it is very hard to see how he could have been convicted when the Sec of State paid $2,000,000 to the witeness to testify.

    Please expand Charles Johnson, please.

  16. Rob
    August 31st, 2010 @ 2:27 pm

    On Leonard, wikipage it said he shot two FBI agents. What’s the whole story?

    The Lockerbie Bomber story is very mysterious…you look at the case and it is very hard to see how he could have been convicted when the Sec of State paid $2,000,000 to the witeness to testify.

    Please expand Charles Johnson, please.

  17. Charles Johnson
    August 31st, 2010 @ 6:46 pm

    @Rob

    Leonard Peltier is an innocent man framed for murder. Everybody who investigates his case knows that.

    He is one of my heros and is truly a advanced, wise soul. He is a hero to many in the Primitive Native Reptilian American community which I was a part of for awhile. And John Trudell, another AIM (American Indian Movement) member, is also one of my heros.

    Leonard represents all the indigenous people in the world and their plight/struggle. What is done to one, is done to all of us. I hope and pray he will be free soon. However, it looks like he is going to die in prison, and with that, a huge modern day injustice.

    Looks like the present-day US is even more impervious to justice than South Africa was. They let Nelson Mandela out after only 28 years.

    OTOH he went on to be president and have a richly rewarding life after prison informed by the insights of that secluded life, so there’s still hope.

  18. Charles Johnson
    August 31st, 2010 @ 2:46 pm

    @Rob

    Leonard Peltier is an innocent man framed for murder. Everybody who investigates his case knows that.

    He is one of my heros and is truly a advanced, wise soul. He is a hero to many in the Primitive Native Reptilian American community which I was a part of for awhile. And John Trudell, another AIM (American Indian Movement) member, is also one of my heros.

    Leonard represents all the indigenous people in the world and their plight/struggle. What is done to one, is done to all of us. I hope and pray he will be free soon. However, it looks like he is going to die in prison, and with that, a huge modern day injustice.

    Looks like the present-day US is even more impervious to justice than South Africa was. They let Nelson Mandela out after only 28 years.

    OTOH he went on to be president and have a richly rewarding life after prison informed by the insights of that secluded life, so there’s still hope.

  19. Rob
    August 31st, 2010 @ 6:57 pm

    Have you tried writting to the Innocence Project about it?

  20. Rob
    August 31st, 2010 @ 2:57 pm

    Have you tried writting to the Innocence Project about it?

  21. richard mcenroe
    August 31st, 2010 @ 7:28 pm

    I will say this as often as I have to:

    Newt Gingrich served his cancer-stricken wife with divorce papers ON HER HOPSITAL BED. If that doesn’t disqualify a man from public life and decent society, what the hell were we yelling at John Edwards about?

    Newt Gingrich conned the American Voters with the Contract with America… then turned his back on it as fast as he could. A LOT of our current problem arises from the way Newt and his successors betrayed conservative Republican principles.

  22. richard mcenroe
    August 31st, 2010 @ 3:28 pm

    I will say this as often as I have to:

    Newt Gingrich served his cancer-stricken wife with divorce papers ON HER HOPSITAL BED. If that doesn’t disqualify a man from public life and decent society, what the hell were we yelling at John Edwards about?

    Newt Gingrich conned the American Voters with the Contract with America… then turned his back on it as fast as he could. A LOT of our current problem arises from the way Newt and his successors betrayed conservative Republican principles.

  23. Estragon
    August 31st, 2010 @ 7:34 pm

    It’s not the marriages that keep me away from supporting Gingrich, although they certainly don’t help. But a guy who supported Dede, makes nice with a Marxist like Pelosi, and is willing to talk about cap-‘n’-tax just isn’t going to get my support even with one good marriage and an old dog.

    Frankly, neither Gingrich nor Coburn have the executive experience needed to be President. Senators and Representatives have been disasters in the Oval Office, the current occupant a case in point.

    Think Governors, Generals, CEOs. Time spent in the United States Congress should be counted against prospective Presidential candidates, not in favor.

    ~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~

    Folks, remember our “CJ” is parody, and Peltier is as guilty as sin itself. He should rot right where he is.

  24. Estragon
    August 31st, 2010 @ 3:34 pm

    It’s not the marriages that keep me away from supporting Gingrich, although they certainly don’t help. But a guy who supported Dede, makes nice with a Marxist like Pelosi, and is willing to talk about cap-‘n’-tax just isn’t going to get my support even with one good marriage and an old dog.

    Frankly, neither Gingrich nor Coburn have the executive experience needed to be President. Senators and Representatives have been disasters in the Oval Office, the current occupant a case in point.

    Think Governors, Generals, CEOs. Time spent in the United States Congress should be counted against prospective Presidential candidates, not in favor.

    ~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~

    Folks, remember our “CJ” is parody, and Peltier is as guilty as sin itself. He should rot right where he is.

  25. Charles Johnson
    August 31st, 2010 @ 7:44 pm

    I am the real Charles Johnson. You can tell by the little green football. And I am more of a Mumia Abu-Jamal fan rather than for Leonard Peltier.

  26. Charles Johnson
    August 31st, 2010 @ 3:44 pm

    I am the real Charles Johnson. You can tell by the little green football. And I am more of a Mumia Abu-Jamal fan rather than for Leonard Peltier.

  27. K~Bob
    August 31st, 2010 @ 8:58 pm

    I know several good men that have have had several marriages each, and in all cases, these men have been the patient, put-upon parties, and did not seek the divorce. It hurt them in ways that were heartbreaking to see. These are honorable men. Their exes came with problems they thought they could tolerate. Things like alcohol problems, gambling addictions, and delinquent children from previous marriages; these can all be made to seem trivial during courtship.

    Think about it: too many guys will fake being a vegetarian to get in bed with a vegetarian chick. A person with a gambling problem will probably manage to skip a few visits to the casino if he or she wants to attract a mate.

    Choice in partner is not always based on the kinds of things that make a marriage last. And as I’m sure Stacy will attest, the marriage doesn’t just “happen” to last. It takes hard work to come to a point where two truly become as one.

    So the number of divorces taken by itself isn’t a good metric. Not at all. But the troubling thing about Newt is the situation with divorce proceedings at the wrongest possible time.

    (It may well be that she wanted it that way. I don’t know, but it looks very bad on the surface.)

    As a statesman, Newt covers the middle ground nicely. He has some excellent points about what unites us all. But at this time, we need someone who shuns the middle ground of today, and is pushing to relocate that middle ground where it belongs–back where the Founders put it.

  28. K~Bob
    August 31st, 2010 @ 4:58 pm

    I know several good men that have have had several marriages each, and in all cases, these men have been the patient, put-upon parties, and did not seek the divorce. It hurt them in ways that were heartbreaking to see. These are honorable men. Their exes came with problems they thought they could tolerate. Things like alcohol problems, gambling addictions, and delinquent children from previous marriages; these can all be made to seem trivial during courtship.

    Think about it: too many guys will fake being a vegetarian to get in bed with a vegetarian chick. A person with a gambling problem will probably manage to skip a few visits to the casino if he or she wants to attract a mate.

    Choice in partner is not always based on the kinds of things that make a marriage last. And as I’m sure Stacy will attest, the marriage doesn’t just “happen” to last. It takes hard work to come to a point where two truly become as one.

    So the number of divorces taken by itself isn’t a good metric. Not at all. But the troubling thing about Newt is the situation with divorce proceedings at the wrongest possible time.

    (It may well be that she wanted it that way. I don’t know, but it looks very bad on the surface.)

    As a statesman, Newt covers the middle ground nicely. He has some excellent points about what unites us all. But at this time, we need someone who shuns the middle ground of today, and is pushing to relocate that middle ground where it belongs–back where the Founders put it.

  29. Joe
    August 31st, 2010 @ 10:17 pm

    Newt’s marriages are not the problem, but may be a symptom of the real problem. Newt’s problem is Newt.

    He lost me with Scozzafava. If he lacks judgment dealing with that, how can you trust him to deal with Putin?

  30. Joe
    August 31st, 2010 @ 6:17 pm

    Newt’s marriages are not the problem, but may be a symptom of the real problem. Newt’s problem is Newt.

    He lost me with Scozzafava. If he lacks judgment dealing with that, how can you trust him to deal with Putin?

  31. Kojocaro
    August 31st, 2010 @ 10:46 pm

    Estragn i feel the same way about Mccain and his daughter Meghan Mcjiggly i also don’t appreciate coburn either although he is right about neutered gingrich

  32. Kojocaro
    August 31st, 2010 @ 6:46 pm

    Estragn i feel the same way about Mccain and his daughter Meghan Mcjiggly i also don’t appreciate coburn either although he is right about neutered gingrich

  33. Kojocaro
    August 31st, 2010 @ 10:47 pm

    estragon*

  34. Kojocaro
    August 31st, 2010 @ 6:47 pm

    estragon*

  35. Live Free Or Die
    September 1st, 2010 @ 6:49 am

    Like all Establishment politicians, Newt considers the electorate to be disposable rubes. Newt has just extended that to include his wives.

    Neutered Gingrich might be an improvement.

  36. Live Free Or Die
    September 1st, 2010 @ 2:49 am

    Like all Establishment politicians, Newt considers the electorate to be disposable rubes. Newt has just extended that to include his wives.

    Neutered Gingrich might be an improvement.

  37. Paragons and charlatans | One Fine Jay
    September 1st, 2010 @ 8:22 am

    […] more important thing is to decentralize our hopes and aspirations over many public servants. Take this conclusion by Smitty (emphasis mine): Here is something of a conclusion: let us be as forgiving as genuine repentance […]

  38. Oxbay
    September 1st, 2010 @ 5:07 pm

    Using ex wives as sources for a story about politics is a borrible thing to do.

  39. Oxbay
    September 1st, 2010 @ 1:07 pm

    Using ex wives as sources for a story about politics is a borrible thing to do.

  40. Oxbay
    September 1st, 2010 @ 5:08 pm

    b should h

    horrible

  41. Oxbay
    September 1st, 2010 @ 1:08 pm

    b should h

    horrible